Tololy's Box

*warning I’m going to be narcissistic and full of my self here since i digress* I don’t think my reply was cliche … and i was curious to see where it goes but it needed a sparring partner and that’s what i get back ? disappointing

Uh-oh. So you didn’t catch my Nietzsche allusion “Thus spake Tololy.” That was in tribute to your comment, kinda.

hence the disappointment … I was curious to see the progress since i had an idea in my head about what it could possibly mean to discuss suicide ( and also i wanted to poke you with the nietzsche to see if it was the source of inspiration )

I tend to be nihilistic, Camus speaks my thoughts for me very elegantly. I think I should have addressed your comment in my previous post, and you’re totally right in blaming me for not doing so.

“Suicide is an extremely nihilistic solution to life” >> Depends how you look at it. I for one don’t think it’s any more “nihilistic” than going through the daily motions of a life you absolutely abhor in a world you don’t understand, etc.

“Suicide becomes a valid choice when a philosophy devalues human life in favor for an imaginary one” >> What imaginary life? The afterlife? Explanation needed…

I’ve never felt so lacking of english vocabulary in my life..min wain bitjeebo il expressions?

I wasn’t hinting that you wana suicide Tololy,it was more like a push away from any negativity one would get from discussing suicide.

I do agree philosophy is good for stimulating the brain,but for me it would never achieve the described feeling of naked floating freely. Id only get Such free feeling if having a perfectly clear mind without no life worries.

Thus spoke the glorious Lead Zeppelin

YAY
Aha, the difference is that suicide is the answer to living a pointless existence, you are making that choice for a better life ironically. thats what i mean by an imaginary life it is when you compare you current situation and life with that of the alternative.
Whether it’s someone else’s life that you want, the life that others- parents- want for you, or maybe the life you are promised religiously if you sacrifice your life.At the end that life that you think you should have is a mirage that can’t rationally be yours.
That illusion is born out a personal philosophy that a person’s develop to place value on his life and others around him.
whatchu spunk ?

Led, how do you achieve a clear mind with no life worries?

Bambam, I don’t think suicide is meant as an answer to a pointless existence. If existence is pointless, then there’s no way we can rationalize it and there is no “question” to be answered in the first place.
I think Camus means that suicide is a termination rather than an answer. It doesn’t guide to another life, it just ends this one, i.e. having no life is better than the alternative: a pointless living.

here is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy

so in this case the meaning of life is the question, and suicide is but one of the answers for someone who decides life is meaningless and they have no control over who they want to be. I tried to also include that suicide might not be only because of the pointlessness of life but i tried to include that some people commit it when a philosophy creates a path to reach a promised after life as well. the common ground in both cases, pointless life philosophy or afterlife philosophy is that it undermines his current life and humanity.
The other answer is to ascribe meaning to life through hope and belief. that way you are basing your existance on faith alone. thats what i think he meant by that statement and he was wondering if there is a third so thats why i jumped in and mentioned nietzches superman and what that third option to the meaning of life be…
so suicide is not the answer to a pointless existance but the byproduct in the sense “what is the point of doing anything if everything i do is pointless and will amount to nothing?”

I wish I knew how,If I ever find out I’ll give you a buzz!

In 100-200 years, when the mysteries of the human brain have largely been elucidated, those middlemen like psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, and philosophers all will become extinct. Why? The brain is a mixed bag of soft-tissue anatomy and crazy chemistry that, when combined just right, produce the entire repertoire of behaviors we show, sometimes stupidly. Suicide is a side effect of something gone amiss with one’s neurochemistry and/or neuroanatomy. Those now in the throes of suicidal thoughts cannot, unfortunately, take solace in these predictions, as they’re a bridge too far. . . .

P.S. The reason why those middlemen’s services will no longer be required is because science and medicine will have introduced a new level of service to humans: perhaps we could call it something like “In Situ Healing,” in which a person goes to a special clinic for a malady, and the technician literally looks right into that person’s body or brain, finding the exact molecular or atomic “problem,” then making the appropriate changes to the molecules or higher-order chemicals. There will be no need for someone to analyze this person’s problems by studying their behaviors as is done currently, because these futuristic clinics will be able to address the problems directly and cure a person using direct-intervention molecular tools. I hope this is more clear.

why wait for the future since its already here… just use drugs ~ the non-pharmecutical kind) ~

William, I think you raise a very important point. But I am not so sure that “suicide is a side effect of something gone amiss with one’s neurochemistry and/or neuroanatomy.”

I need to read up more about the subject, but in my opinion, suicide has many faces and it can be committed by perfectly sane people who don’t have problems, to prove one point or another..like Yukio Mishima and a multitude of protesters from all over the world: Eisaku Inoue, Lee Byong-Ryol,…

Tololy, you’re right. I chose to focus on those who truly suffer from some neurochemical deficit. I agree that there’re other, perfectly healthy, people who kill themselves for reasons other than their own chemistry gone awry. Thank you.

*Ahem*-for the record, I caught the Nietzsche reference.

People committed suicide when they reach a point that there was no point going on with life.

they wanted to escape from what was going on. And at that particular moment dying seemed like the only way out.

Those who were making a suicide attempt say that they did it because they were trying to escape from a situation that seemed impossible to deal with or to get relief from really bad thoughts or feelings.